Zuting Chen PD1
Aim: How does Grendel’s conversation with the Dragon illuminate the philosophical theory of nihilism and simultaneously define Grendel’s purpose?
Do now: Pair-Share:
- Why does the dragon use a ridiculous term to explain everything?
- How does Gardener describe the voice of the dragon? Why?
- What physical item(s) is/are the only things that the dragon seems to care about?
- What element(s) of time can the Dragon “see”?
- How does the dragon describe the role of the Shaper?
1. Why does the dragon use a ridiculous term to explain everything?
“It’s damned hard… confining myself to concepts familiar to a creature of the Dark Ages. Not that one age is darker than another. Technical jargon from another dark age” (Gardner, 67)
In Chapter 5, Grendel went to speak with the dragon, who uses relatively complicated vocabulary such as molecules and atoms to describe to Grendel the world as he sees it. The class brought up many potential reasons, ranging from the dragon wanting to sound superior to simply not being able to explain it in more understandable terms for Grendel who has never been exposed to such concepts in the era the book takes place in.
John argued that the dragon, with his ability to see the future, only acted that way to appear that way to Grendel. By using such “technical jargon”, he’s able to make himself appear far superior to Grendel. In a way, this could be true. Gardner introduces the dragon as an overwhelming character: in abilities, size, and knowledge. One of his earliest interactions with Grendel is by belittling him by comparing him to a rabbit.
However, other classmates also argued that the dragon couldn’t explain it much better. The quote above suggests that the dragon is merely unable to describe what he wants to convey. When Grendel couldn’t keep up, he did make some attempts to explain it in different ways, such as his example with a vegetable and animals on page 69.
2. How does Gardener describe the voice of the dragon? Why?
“The old-man voice was as terrible as the eyes. It was as if he’d been dead for a thousand years” (Gardner, 60)
There’s a lot of emphasis on the dragon sounding like an “old man”, which could represent a variety of things. One brought up in class was that the dragon almost acts as a grandfather figure to Grendel. The dragon’s sayings and tone resembles an older grandparent who has lived in the world for a long time wants to inform their seemingly ignorant younger generations.
Mrs. Fusaro added her interpretation: that the dragon is assuming the role of a mentor or professor while Grendel the student. When Grendel first entered the dragon’s cave, the dragon called him a “good boy” and patted Grendel’s head as if he was a child. And Grendel was; the dragon far exceeded him in knowledge. The mentor that the dragon is tried to “lecture” Grendel on various aspects of science, even going as far to talk about the law of gravitation and how even a rock “attracts the universe” (Gardner, 70). Despite Grendel’s inability to understand, the dragon seems caught up in a diatribe, as suggested by Jacob, and wanted to use the conversation as an opportunity to learn something new.
3. What physical item(s) is/are the only things that the dragon seems to care about?
“‘Personally,’ [the dragon] said, ‘my great ambition is to count all of this’–he waved vaguely at the treasure around him–’and possibly sort it into piles’” (Gardner 73)
With the dragon’s nihilistic lifestyle, none of his actions really mattered to him, so he occupied himself by counting treasure. He sees life as following the events that he knows will happen.
The dragon, knowing fully well the future ahead of him, takes no initiative to change the “inevitable”. Without that same joy and discovery Grendel described in the first chapter, the dragon has few ways to occupy his time. He chooses to stay idle on top of a pile of stoic treasure.
Although it wasn’t brought up much, I feel like this might also be a comparison to reality: whereas treasure is money and luxurious goods. The American Dream, still prevalent at that time, gave many Americans an ideal vision to follow and that vision is to become successful and rich. By focusing on riches, Gardner might be criticizing society for caring so much about money when there’s much more to explore in life (especially as people cannot possibly know everything, like the dragon).
4. What element(s) of time can the Dragon “see”?
“He half smiled, then let go of it as if infinitely weary, sick of Time. ‘I know everything you see… The beginning, the present, the end. Everything.’” (Gardner, 62)
During the class discussion, it was brought up that the dragon’s real treasure was his ability to see through the past, present, and future. But this blessing was also a curse; the dragon saw and knew what would happen, so nothing really mattered to him anymore because “[he doesn't] change the future, [he] merely do what I saw from the beginning” (Gardner, 63). Although powerful, he knew that he would eventually succumb to a human.
This leads him to believe in nihilism because nothing he does (or anyone does) appears to contribute to the greater scheme of the world.
This leads him to believe in nihilism because nothing he does (or anyone does) appears to contribute to the greater scheme of the world.
5. How does the dragon describe the role of the Shaper?
“That’s where the Shaper saves them. Provides an illusion of reality– puts together all their facts with a gluey whine of connectedness. Mere tripe… He knows no more than they do about total reality– less, if anything.... Think Heaven loves them… as for myself, I can hardly bear to look” (Gardner, 65)
Like Grendel, the dragon knows the true history and essentially says that the Shaper “glues” together history in a way that people are more inclined to believe in. The Shaper, according to the dragon, often knows less than other people do, but his tales are so important that even Heaven adores the Shapers.
Grendel tried to bring up the Shaper multiple times in the chapter, but the dragon ultimately doesn’t want to listen. He tries to explain other thoughts in his mind and even tries to cover “his ears with his claws” (Gardner, 74).
The dragon was satisfied with his nihilistic beliefs, unlike Grendel, who still wants to believe in meaning. Grendel wanted to listen to the Shaper because he’s genuinely moved by the Shaper’s art, as suggested in the previous chapters. In contrast, the dragon calls the Shaper’s words as “ridiculous”, that no god exists, and nothing in life really means as much as the Shaper says. As a result, it’s possible that the dragon is introduced as a character to spark conflict as Grendel is on his journey to discover who he is.
Continuing from 2/13 on 2/14, we added to the previous day’s discussion with more key points.
Discuss now: What does Grendel learn about humans and God while visiting the Dragon?
The Dragon sees everything in time so he knows that God doesn’t exist. God is made for humans to have something tangible to look up to so the Dragon doesn’t understand it.
In the previous chapters, a similar concept is suggested when Grendel kicks the air and complains to the sky. Even though there’s nobody there, Grendel would still like to believe that there is a being overhead. God isn’t real, but people would like to believe it too.
The zodiac for this chapter is Leo (the lion). They’re known to be bold and the “king of animals”. The Dragon is representative of leo because of his greatness and the knowledge he holds through his ability. Also he is “golden and fiery as a lion”
Additionally, the Dragon can also be compared to God in the Book of Job: they’re both beings of infinite wisdom and understand much more than the characters of the story do. Neither of them are able to explain themselves completely; God was only able to show Job the world and the Dragon wasn’t able to talk to Grendel in a way that he would understand. The molecules and atoms that the Dragon spoke of were beyond Grendel’s scope of knowledge.
But at the same time, the Dragon is like the Satan, who’s known for being the “questioner”. In the Book of Job, the Satan questions Job’s true intentions and tested it by making Job suffer. In the bible, Satan also suggested that Eve should eat the apple from the garden of Eden. The Dragon, like the Satan, questions Grendel’s purpose and his view of the world. Grendel came to the Dragon for advice and the Dragon said that things will all end the same and nothing Grendel does can change that, so he suggests just being a monster to stimulate humanity and “[seeking] out gold and [sitting] on it” (Gardner, 74).
Whole-Group Discussion: Think about the proposition of time relative to the Dragon’s point. What are your thoughts?
The Dragon sees time really nihilistically because “time” is surrounded by infinity; there’s infinite time before now and infinite after. Mrs. Fusaro also added that it’s a human construct that builds onto humanity’s sense of purpose. The Dragon however, would see that as an “illusion of purpose”.
Monism (noun)
1. (philosophy) the doctrine that the person consists of only a single substance, or that there is no crucial difference between mental and physical events or properties
Pair-Share: How does this elucidate the fear of “what is the meaning of life”?
The Dragon’s statement on importance suggests that actions don’t have consequences, therefore, there is no meaning to life. Like mentioned before, humans like to believe that there is purpose to their actions- that what they do matter- which is what makes it fearful.
What's even scarier is the fact that none of our actions really matter to the the universe. When viewed from that grandiose perspective, the infinite time and space, "a finite individual occasion" really doesn't mean anything. The Dragon's nihilism is built on that way of viewing the world.
Independent Thought: How does the Dragon’s presence shape your own sense of thought? Has there ever been a text, a song, a piece of art, which affected you to the very essence of your core?
There was a time when I questioned what our actions really mean in the greater spectrum of the world, going by the same obstacle that Grendel had with the Dragon. I didn’t know what to make of what I do and felt lost in general. But with some time and meaningful experiences, I realized that there’s still much more to look forward to in the present day; we shouldn’t focus so much on the past or the future.
Thomas Hardy’s “The Convergence of the Twain”
I
In a solitude of the sea
Deep from human vanity,
And the Pride of Life that planned her, stilly couches she.
II
Steel chambers, late the pyres
Of her salamandrine fires,
Cold currents thrid, and turn to rhythmic tidal lyres.
III
Over the mirrors meant
To glass the opulent
The sea-worm crawls — grotesque, slimed, dumb, indifferent.
IV
Jewels in joy designed
To ravish the sensuous mind
Lie lightless, all their sparkles bleared and black and blind.
V
Dim moon-eyed fishes near
Gaze at the gilded gear
And query: "What does this vaingloriousness down here?" ...
VI
Well: while was fashioning
This creature of cleaving wing,
The Immanent Will that stirs and urges everything
VII
Prepared a sinister mate
For her — so gaily great —
A Shape of Ice, for the time far and dissociate.
VIII
And as the smart ship grew
In stature, grace, and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the Iceberg too.
IX
Alien they seemed to be;
No mortal eye could see
The intimate welding of their later history,
X
Or sign that they were bent
By paths coincident
On being anon twin halves of one august event,
XI
Till the Spinner of the Years
Said "Now!" And each one hears,
And consummation comes, and jars two hemispheres.
Link to the source
This poem describes the treasures left behind by the Titanic, as suggested by parts I and VIII. The treasures buried beneath the water for years, much like the treasures the Dragon hoards, have a story that even transcends the mortal beings that keep them. The Dragon finds that aspect of treasures interesting, so he chose to spend the rest of his life counting the treasure.
Reflection:
Although seemingly short, the lesson was really insightful to reality in many ways. This chapter is possibly John Gardner’s biggest insertion of how life was for him (and potentially others) in the 1970s. The Dragon, despite being so wise and knowledgeable, isn’t any happier. He knows what he will do in the future and gave up to the waves of time, finding comfort in the fact that he can’t do anything to change the future, even his eventual death. He embodies the very definition of nihilism, that one’s existence doesn’t matter. When Grendel tries to figure out the meaning behind the Shaper’s works, the Dragon simply responds with “nothing” will come out of it, “a brief pulsation in the black hole of eternity”– further suggesting that the Dragon believes that actions have little impact (Gardner, 74).
Like Grendel’s own journey to discover who he is, the Dragon acts as a contrast to the Shaper for readers. He’s a pessimistic contrast and embodies nihilism. The Dragon is a dark character because he evaporates all sense of being. His knowledge yet nihilism persuades Grendel that his struggle is meaningless in the end. This dangerous way of thinking is what Grendel eventually goes towards (from what we know, he terrorizes the Herot for 12 years), as opposed to the Shaper’s illusion of a glorious and meaningful life.
I personally felt like the Dragon gave up on trying to make life more interesting than counting treasure. With such an ability, it could’ve been used for more but he instead sulks in the inevitable end of everything. My take-away is to enjoy life for what it is instead of focusing on things we can’t avoid. Even if we can’t make a major impact on the world itself, we can make small impacts on those around us and ourselves.
Discuss now: What does Grendel learn about humans and God while visiting the Dragon?
The Dragon sees everything in time so he knows that God doesn’t exist. God is made for humans to have something tangible to look up to so the Dragon doesn’t understand it.
In the previous chapters, a similar concept is suggested when Grendel kicks the air and complains to the sky. Even though there’s nobody there, Grendel would still like to believe that there is a being overhead. God isn’t real, but people would like to believe it too.
The zodiac for this chapter is Leo (the lion). They’re known to be bold and the “king of animals”. The Dragon is representative of leo because of his greatness and the knowledge he holds through his ability. Also he is “golden and fiery as a lion”
Additionally, the Dragon can also be compared to God in the Book of Job: they’re both beings of infinite wisdom and understand much more than the characters of the story do. Neither of them are able to explain themselves completely; God was only able to show Job the world and the Dragon wasn’t able to talk to Grendel in a way that he would understand. The molecules and atoms that the Dragon spoke of were beyond Grendel’s scope of knowledge.
But at the same time, the Dragon is like the Satan, who’s known for being the “questioner”. In the Book of Job, the Satan questions Job’s true intentions and tested it by making Job suffer. In the bible, Satan also suggested that Eve should eat the apple from the garden of Eden. The Dragon, like the Satan, questions Grendel’s purpose and his view of the world. Grendel came to the Dragon for advice and the Dragon said that things will all end the same and nothing Grendel does can change that, so he suggests just being a monster to stimulate humanity and “[seeking] out gold and [sitting] on it” (Gardner, 74).
“The apparent absence of change within a second of time tells nothing as to the change within a thousand years” (Grendel, 66)
Whole-Group Discussion: Think about the proposition of time relative to the Dragon’s point. What are your thoughts?
The Dragon sees time really nihilistically because “time” is surrounded by infinity; there’s infinite time before now and infinite after. Mrs. Fusaro also added that it’s a human construct that builds onto humanity’s sense of purpose. The Dragon however, would see that as an “illusion of purpose”.
“Importance is primarily monistic in its reference to the universe. Limited to a finite individual occasion, importance ceases to be important” (Gardner, 68)
Monism (noun)
1. (philosophy) the doctrine that the person consists of only a single substance, or that there is no crucial difference between mental and physical events or properties
Pair-Share: How does this elucidate the fear of “what is the meaning of life”?
The Dragon’s statement on importance suggests that actions don’t have consequences, therefore, there is no meaning to life. Like mentioned before, humans like to believe that there is purpose to their actions- that what they do matter- which is what makes it fearful.
What's even scarier is the fact that none of our actions really matter to the the universe. When viewed from that grandiose perspective, the infinite time and space, "a finite individual occasion" really doesn't mean anything. The Dragon's nihilism is built on that way of viewing the world.
Independent Thought: How does the Dragon’s presence shape your own sense of thought? Has there ever been a text, a song, a piece of art, which affected you to the very essence of your core?
There was a time when I questioned what our actions really mean in the greater spectrum of the world, going by the same obstacle that Grendel had with the Dragon. I didn’t know what to make of what I do and felt lost in general. But with some time and meaningful experiences, I realized that there’s still much more to look forward to in the present day; we shouldn’t focus so much on the past or the future.
Thomas Hardy’s “The Convergence of the Twain”
I
In a solitude of the sea
Deep from human vanity,
And the Pride of Life that planned her, stilly couches she.
II
Steel chambers, late the pyres
Of her salamandrine fires,
Cold currents thrid, and turn to rhythmic tidal lyres.
III
Over the mirrors meant
To glass the opulent
The sea-worm crawls — grotesque, slimed, dumb, indifferent.
IV
Jewels in joy designed
To ravish the sensuous mind
Lie lightless, all their sparkles bleared and black and blind.
V
Dim moon-eyed fishes near
Gaze at the gilded gear
And query: "What does this vaingloriousness down here?" ...
VI
Well: while was fashioning
This creature of cleaving wing,
The Immanent Will that stirs and urges everything
VII
Prepared a sinister mate
For her — so gaily great —
A Shape of Ice, for the time far and dissociate.
VIII
And as the smart ship grew
In stature, grace, and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the Iceberg too.
IX
Alien they seemed to be;
No mortal eye could see
The intimate welding of their later history,
X
Or sign that they were bent
By paths coincident
On being anon twin halves of one august event,
XI
Till the Spinner of the Years
Said "Now!" And each one hears,
And consummation comes, and jars two hemispheres.
Link to the source
This poem describes the treasures left behind by the Titanic, as suggested by parts I and VIII. The treasures buried beneath the water for years, much like the treasures the Dragon hoards, have a story that even transcends the mortal beings that keep them. The Dragon finds that aspect of treasures interesting, so he chose to spend the rest of his life counting the treasure.
“My advice to you, my violent friend, is to seek out gold and sit on it” (Gardner, 74)
Reflection:
Although seemingly short, the lesson was really insightful to reality in many ways. This chapter is possibly John Gardner’s biggest insertion of how life was for him (and potentially others) in the 1970s. The Dragon, despite being so wise and knowledgeable, isn’t any happier. He knows what he will do in the future and gave up to the waves of time, finding comfort in the fact that he can’t do anything to change the future, even his eventual death. He embodies the very definition of nihilism, that one’s existence doesn’t matter. When Grendel tries to figure out the meaning behind the Shaper’s works, the Dragon simply responds with “nothing” will come out of it, “a brief pulsation in the black hole of eternity”– further suggesting that the Dragon believes that actions have little impact (Gardner, 74).
Like Grendel’s own journey to discover who he is, the Dragon acts as a contrast to the Shaper for readers. He’s a pessimistic contrast and embodies nihilism. The Dragon is a dark character because he evaporates all sense of being. His knowledge yet nihilism persuades Grendel that his struggle is meaningless in the end. This dangerous way of thinking is what Grendel eventually goes towards (from what we know, he terrorizes the Herot for 12 years), as opposed to the Shaper’s illusion of a glorious and meaningful life.
I personally felt like the Dragon gave up on trying to make life more interesting than counting treasure. With such an ability, it could’ve been used for more but he instead sulks in the inevitable end of everything. My take-away is to enjoy life for what it is instead of focusing on things we can’t avoid. Even if we can’t make a major impact on the world itself, we can make small impacts on those around us and ourselves.
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